What’s your vibe and adaptability?

I spent 34 years in Portland, Oregon…the place that put the “casual” in “Friday casual.” I also worked in the tech industry which is famously casual.

Kristine’s from the Seattle area. And works in tech…but long ago worked at Nordstrom. She’s the classy one of the two of us.

So I can and do wear a jackets…but it’s still over top a pair of jeans.

Honestly, though, my long time home church in Portland (before moving to Seattle to marry Kristine) is as hipster/low-brow/tattoo-friendly as they come. Theologically it (and I) are conservative, but as far from formal as you could get.

As it turns out, Kristine and I are both well-traveled and I have lived lots of places. I’m used to adapting culturally.

But on the average day we’re “beauty and the beast,” and she’s the beauty. And I’m the guy usually dressing down instead of dressing up.

What Bible verses most speak to you?

I’m not exactly a “What’s your life verse?” kind of guy, but there are a few that SO resonate with me that they ring in my head almost daily.

As for me, I vow that I will not sin against the Lord by ceasing to pray for you. I will teach you the good and right way. ~1 Samuel 12:23, CSB

Even as the Israelites insisted on having a king like all the surrounding nations, Samuel loved them enough to a) warn them and b) commit to them his faithfulness.

That’s what God does with us, right?

That’s my commitment to my first ministry (Kristine!), and that’s how I think about shepherding a flock. Prayer, preaching, and care ARE the work, right?

A person’s heart plans his way, but the Lord determines his steps. ~Proverbs 16:9, CSB

I could tell you story after story about how this has touched down in my life, how…

• …in the span of a few weeks I went from a breakfast conversation in Portland, Oregon to studying for five weeks in Oxford, England

• …I ended up working on my DMin at Denver Seminary (and how a DMin in Spiritual Formation relates to an MA in Apologetics)

• …the Lord revealed to me one step in front of me that resulted in marriage and moving to Tacoma, Washington and turning down an offer for a pastoral role along the way

• ….I believe that “the call” may be a ‘road to Damascus’ moment for some people, but is more likely to be like the wandering, stumbling path that Peter took.

• …Kristine and I have been praying that the Lord would lead us to a locality — congregation, town or region or people group to be reached, etc.

In a host of ways, this relates to a couple verses that I think sum up nearly all the ethics of the New Testament:

Therefore, brothers and sisters, in view of the mercies of God, I urge you to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God; this is your true worship. Do not be conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may discern what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God. ~Romans 12:1-2, CSB

When I started serving regularly in the weekly chapel services for LifeChange (at Union Gospel Mission in Portland, OR), I prayerfully began by preaching through Romans 12.

But in the last couple years my own view of “preaching” and “pastoring” has been transformed by what I have learned while serving at UGM:

• “Relational” over “transactional.” As I preached through Romans 12, the Lord hammered home “relational spirituality” to me such that it became the focus of my DMin thesis (Romans 12 is the application of the Gospel to loving God, loving/being the church, and even loving one’s enemies).

• Dialogue beats monologue. I began serving by ‘delivering a message’ at UGM’s chapel services, but what I found was “circling up the chairs” and facilitating a lesson conversationally had a greater impact.

This dovetails with my passion for applied theology — our ability to connect. It’s the subject of my doctoral work. And it’s rooted in one of the quintessential verses used in apologetics — that relational spirituality isn’t just about the “what,” it’s also very much about the “how”:

…but in your hearts regard Christ the Lord as holy, ready at any time to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you. Yet do this with gentleness and reverence… ~1 Peter 3:15–16a, CSB

“For the hope” is where the name of my podcast and personal ministry comes from, but there’s more to me than that.

In this “now and not-yet” life the “now” is both being ready to give an apologia, but it’s also an incarnational caring. Peter was writing to the diaspora during what was probably a reign of Nero. Identifying with Jesus came at a cost.

But your identity is itself rooted in hope — and hope is inherently “history and eschatalogy.” To paraphrase Lewis Smedes, remembering redemptively is trusting that a God who has always been trustworthy can be counted on for a history which is yet future to us.

And don’t we live in just such a world with just such a need for the gospel?

Why, yes. Yes we do.

I’d argue that politics simply follows culture, and culture simply follows worldview. So where are we at with origin, identity, meaning, morality, and destiny?

We need to get people ready spiritually for some tough times ahead.

What is your philosophy of ministry?

Jesus meets you where you’re at, but He’s not content to leave you where you’re at. And His mission is my mission.

With those outside the church, the goal is Jesus. With those inside the church, the goal is more Jesus. It’s relational, not transactional. It connects principle and practice in head, heart, and hands.

As one way that it touches down, consider how I approach the podcast… #ForTheHope. The truth is that you can go anywhere and hear a great voice. But what if ‘reading through the Bible together’ means doing it like we’re drinking coffee and commenting along the way, leaving in the “keepin’ it real” moments, and actually responding to real listener pastoral needs, questions, and prayer requests?

Because that’s what I do every single day.

We do it every single day because we need spiritual food daily (just like we need physical food daily).

So what does this have to do with pastoring a church?

Two words: curiosity and patience.

To me, that’s relational (versus transactional). It’s life described in relational, attitudinal, and biblical terms instead of programmatical, transactional terms.

Perhaps put another way, systems and programs should support relational development.

Preaching, teaching, small groups, gatherings for men or women or moms or seniors or students or food truck owners — to me, anyway — have the same objective: to encounter the living Christ. Don’t confuse the message and objective with the means/method. One is the goal, the other is the context.

In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, and in all things charity.

What about your divorce(s)?

In my estimation, there are two compound questions here.

One, am I biblically divorced and free to remarry…and does anything here disqualify me from ministry? Two, is the person I marry biblically divorced and free to remarry?

To be fair, I’m shortening this a bit. I’ll blend both the story and the theology.

My first wife and I were not Christian when we married. On the contrary, I was a long-haired, pot-smoking musician who married someone with whom I had a one-night stand (and less than two months later, an abortion). Along the way (after she had an affair with the guy who was the best man at my wedding), I gave my life to Christ. 20 years and three children later, she decided she was done.

I was quite imperfect, of course. Along the way I processed all of this — pre-divorce (and there’s more to the story, during the divorce, and after the divorce — with a dear friend who’s also one of the references you’ll meet. At the time he was the head elder at a large Baptist church where we lived…and he was my accountability partner of many years. In other words, he knew — and still knows — the deepest levels of my failures and abilities.

In all of this, I realized that my temptation would be to self-justify and eisegete. So together we worked through — over months and years — whether or not I was a) biblically divorced and able to remarry and b) disqualified from ministry.

While I’ll happily share, I’ll spare you the theological argumentation. The “moment” came, tearfully, at a Denny’s breakfast a couple years later when he looked me in the eye and said, “You are not disqualified, you were abandoned.”

Fast forward many years.

Dating as a 50-something Christian is quite different. But the short version includes a way I learned to begin dates: to figure out if she’s biblically divorced and able to be remarried.

Along the way I meet, query, and marry, Kristine Szabo.

Besides early questions determining whether or not she was biblically divorced and in the clear to remarry, I asked another key question:

Are you willing to go wherever the Lord calls us?

I trust you can imagine how rare it is for a mid-;ive someone to say, “Yes, anywhere.”

She, even more than me, is a world traveler. In other words, she understands what it means to not be in the Pacific Northwest that we’ve both long called home.

But the heart of the issue is the issue of the heart. She, like I, will go to serve who and where the Lord calls us to serve.

Where are the links to your sermons?

Almost all of my preaching experience came in the five years I did pulpit supply for American Missionary Fellowship (now InReach). We served 13 small rural churches in my field.

The challenge is a) that was long before COVID forced everyone to stream online and b) these churches didn’t have A/V teams, webpages, or anything back then.

So… soon I will start delivering sermons to my webcam and will update this site accordingly.

In the meantime, like I mentioned late in this intro story, I have demonstrable transferrable skills, plenty of education, and perhaps most importantly, a humble, willing-to-learn heart. It’s like I’ve got a lot of experience as a jazz musician, but if I join your rock band it’ll take a little time to adjust the chops.